http://i.imgur.com/MfeSp.gif

Relevance to this forum?

Surely what we are aiming for here is the ability, without such sacrifice, to lift energy poor countries up to the consumption level / living standard of the rest.

Go for it…

This shows the alternative in the absence of fusion success.

Rezwan - 02 July 2010 01:47 AM

This shows the alternative in the absence of fusion success.

I think there’s supposed to be enough frac(k)ing NG to keep the world going for a century or two.  Even France and India have big enough finds recently to contemplate self-sufficiency.

Those 4 should really be OSHA’s poster kids promoting workplace safety. But to see the world without FF, google Third Industrial Revolution. 

Aeronaut - 11 July 2010 06:00 PM

Those 4 should really be OSHA’s poster kids promoting workplace safety. But to see the world without FF, google Third Industrial Revolution. 

OSHA rules that war is unsafe for soldiers, and must cease forthwith!   

As for Rifkin, what he wants is an Industrial Devolution. Maybe he should debate the ShamWow Guy. They’re birds of a feather, on opposite sides! 

Consider the double entendar of “workplace safety” as it pertains to how the BP mess came about.

In case digging&drilling; needs to be done deeper&cheaper;, not much can be done about workplace safety.
And in the world where resources are scarce and current living philosophy of consumerism is still promoted, human life will probably drop in value.

Brian H - 11 July 2010 08:12 PM

OSHA rules that war is unsafe for soldiers, and must cease forthwith!   

lol?  It is indeed unsafe, and unjustifiable in almost all cases.  They got capone on tax evasion, I’d like to see some deft bureaucratic rule emerge that stops evil governments in their bloody wars.  Perhaps if they had to pay the full cost of the war.  Reparations, complete rehabilitation of damaged soldiers and civilians.  Of course the lives can’t be restored.  In which case those politicians all need to be tried for their war crimes.

Breakable - 12 July 2010 03:22 PM

...in the world where resources are scarce and current living philosophy of consumerism is still promoted, human life will probably drop in value.

Someone made a fine distinction for me the other day.  Value vs. cost.  They said, “work doesn’t create value, it creates cost.  Value is in the eye of the beholder.”

Hence, dropping bombs over the Middle East is a no brainer, because the cost is paid by those valueless people over there, who are threatening our precious, valuable sprinkler systems over here. 

Cost?  What cost?  I don’t value their lives (those soldiers, or the civilians in other countries whose lives are in chaos) so it’s no cost at all.  Why are you trying to stick me with this bill?  It’s bad enough I have to pay for all this hardware (the lucrative contract which I’m giving to my golf buddy at Halliburton - because his company, I value).  And I’d gladly throw another thousand lives (however many lives it takes) of other people’s valueless bodies at the problem to keep me in my rosy happy world.  The only thing I really value.

Having lost my brother-in-law to an IED in Iraq I find Breakable’s cartoon difficult.
Peter was in bomb disposal and was “just doing his job” but I only want to look that devil in the eyes once.

The sad truth is eliminating this source of conflict will achieve little in the way of reducing war.
Other excuses will be found.
War is the natural state; peace needs constant vigilance and constant resourcefulness.

In the mean time I would far rather focus on all the good we can do than preening ourselves over the harm done by the alternatives.
(and I’m sorry if this makes me unpopular but I include in that dreaming up holier than thou videos about oil spills on the drive to work)

Let’s please be the solution rather than letting this society be just another soldier twisting the knife.

Phil’s Dad - 12 July 2010 09:11 PM

The sad truth is eliminating this source of conflict will achieve little in the way of reducing war.
Other excuses will be found.
War is the natural state; peace needs constant vigilance and constant resourcefulness.

In the mean time I would far rather focus on all the good we can do than preening ourselves over the harm done by the alternatives.
(and I’m sorry if this makes me unpopular but I include in that dreaming up holier than thou videos about oil spills on the drive to work)

Let’s please be the solution rather than letting this society be just another soldier twisting the knife.

Heartily seconded.

Make that thirded.

Very sorry to hear about your brother-in-law. 

Also, apologies because I’m in a mood today and the following might come off as harsh.

About the rest of your post, I can’t 4th it because I don’t understand what you’re saying. 

Phil’s Dad - 12 July 2010 09:11 PM

The sad truth is eliminating this source of conflict will achieve little in the way of reducing war.

You won’t know that ‘til you’ve done it.

Other excuses will be found.
War is the natural state; peace needs constant vigilance and constant resourcefulness.

Trust is the natural state.  I spend about 98% of my time getting along just fine with people.  Conflicts arise, but get resolved amicably for the most part.  Every now and then they don’t, and there may be some shouting.  I haven’t beaten anyone recently.  There are a few people, well OK, one, who aren’t talking to me (“cold wars”) but I’m extending diplomatic overtures.  I’d say “war” is pretty rare. 

Yes, conflict is ubiquitous, but there are many constructive ways to resolve conflict without letting it escalate to war.  War is a failure of imagination.  Pretending there’s nothing you can do about it is disingenuous and usually the refuge of people who are profiting from it. 

In the mean time I would far rather focus on all the good we can do than preening ourselves over the harm done by the alternatives.

Not sure what “preening ourselves over the harm…” means.  Looks to me like you’re preening as a movie critic here.

(and I’m sorry if this makes me unpopular but I include in that dreaming up holier than thou videos about oil spills on the drive to work)

It’s not about popularity here, but brainstorming.  You said you want to focus on “all” the good we can do, but you’re already shooting down good suggestions, and not coming up with an alternative.  Doesn’t seem like you’re pulling your weight. 

If you don’t like this video idea, come up with - and execute - another one.  Or are you opposed to videos in general? 

Let’s please be the solution

A preening phrase if I ever heard one…

rather than letting this society be just another soldier twisting the knife.

A what?  I don’t get this metaphor.  I see why you don’t like the ready made mass appeal video idea.  That quote seemed really “deep” in an obscure arthouse cinema way.

Ah!  I crack myself up.

War has been an effective way to steal land (and other resources along with it) for centuries. The rosy glasses version of my world view hopes dollar diplomacy itself will prevail, but I’m not betting on it in my lifetime. And sometimes you really do have to go beat the tar out of an extremist who never attempted diplomacy and shows no willingness to work things out to mutual benefit.

Brian H - 11 July 2010 08:12 PM

Aeronaut - 11 July 2010 06:00 PM

Those 4 should really be OSHA’s poster kids promoting workplace safety. But to see the world without FF, google Third Industrial Revolution. 

OSHA rules that war is unsafe for soldiers, and must cease forthwith!   

As for Rifkin, what he wants is an Industrial Devolution. Maybe he should debate the ShamWow Guy. They’re birds of a feather, on opposite sides! 

““The prospect of cheap fusion energy is the
worst thing that could happen to the planet.”
- Jeremy Rifkin,
Greenhouse Crisis Foundation”
http://green-agenda.com/